StrongLifts 5x5 modifications

[daedala]

Hi all. I just realized I've been stalled on deadlifts in my current program for two months. Yikes! That means it's time to move on.

I am thinking of doing Stronglifts 5x5. It's a pretty basic squat/bench/row/press/deadlift program where you do 5 sets of 5 reps, start very light, and add weight every workout.

1. I bike a lot. Heavy squats and deadlifts will interfere with this. Given a choice between biking and lifting, biking wins. My average last year for the season was 70 miles per week; I'm aiming for 100.
2. I'm kind of worried about the form of barbell rows and the starting weight needed. Starting with 65 lbs (you need plates on the bar because you're starting from the floor) is reasonable for men. I'm not sure how reasonable it is for me. Stronglifts recommends starting with inverted rows if you have trouble with that, but those make my shoulders feel funny in a bad way.

Therefore, I'm thinking of doing 5x5 with the following modifications:

1. Reduce the volume on squats to 3x5 as soon as I feel like it interferes with biking. Maybe not the first week, but very soon. And go to twice a week rather than three times per week if needed.
2. Do assisted pullups (which my shoulders are fine with) instead of barbell or inverted rows. Start with 50% bodyweight as counterweight. My goal is pullups anyway.
3. Being female, my upper body strength kind of sucks. While I know I can do 5x5 with the 45 lb bar easily, I'll plateau really fast that way. So I will start with the 30 lb bar they have at my gym.

That would mean my workouts would look like this:

A
5x5 or 3x5 squats (start with empty bar at 5x5, go up 5 lbs per completed workout, drop to 3x5 fast)
5x5 bench (start with empty 30 lb bar, go up 5 or 2.5 lbs per competed workout, if I can find the fractional plates)
5x5 assisted pullups (start with a 70 lb counterweight, go down 5 lbs per completed workout)

B
3x5 squats
5x5 press (start with empty 30 lb bar, go up 5 or 2.5 lbs per competed workout, if I can find the fractional plates)
1x5 deadlift (not a modification, the is in the original, though I may use a lower starting weight)

Thoughts? I always get annoyed when someone talks about modifying an established program, so now I'm annoyed at myself. :) I realize that this program is somewhat compromised. But the original Stronglifts is very heavily geared towards men, and strongly recommends against doing cardio. I'm not as strong as a man, I won't make gains as quickly, and I want to go biking.

Comments

[abyssinia]

First off, I think it's highly appropriate for people to tailor an established program to fit their needs and goals. Exercise is really really not one size fits all.

Second off, how often will you be doing this? This seems like the sort of program I would expect to be 2 or 3 days a week, with ample rest days in between for your muscles to recover and get stronger. Knowing how I react to this kind of lifting, I would be surprised if it affected your biking all that much unless you lift right before riding. I mean, it depends on how hardcore your biking is with speed and hills and how your body, personally, responds, but I bet if you are careful about timing once you get used to it, you'll be fine. And, heck, stronger squats should mean stronger biking, right? :)

One thing you might consider (and maybe the program does this) is alternate front squats in A and back squats in B (with different weights - most people I know can back squat more than they can front squat). Also, given how often you bike, if you're starting with an empty bar I bet it will take a long time before you need to drop to 3x5.

If you're doing strict shoulder presses, I'd definitely try to do the 2.5 increase once you're getting close to the struggle point. That can feel like a huge jump.

Honestly, it sounds like a good program so long as you listen to your body and are okay if you just can't go up weight some weeks. And it looks like you're already doing that - considering what your goals are and modifying appropriately.

Good luck!

[daedala]

Oh, I agree it's appropriate to tailor programs, but then complaining that your tailored version of [whatever] doesn't work so [whatever] doesn't work gets up my nose. :)

And yes, I should have mentioned -- it's originally scheduled for 3x per week, I figured I'd start with that and drop to 2x if needed. Now that my health insurance no longer gives me anything for going to the gym regularly *mutter mutter*.....

My biking is Happy Commuter Biking. But apparently I do enough that I can keep up with competitive cyclists on a casual ride. I can't keep up if they go all-out, but their comfortable riding pace is good for me. I'm still pretty o.O about that. However, I didn't train much during the winter, so even a 20-mile ride now is noticeable....

My biggest concern is the assisted pullups for barbell rows. I've been reading around and it looks like inverted pullups are harder to do in good form than many people think, though, so maybe I just wasn't strong enough when I tried them. I can try again, I suppose. But I really want to do a pullup. I'm at the point where my 1rm for assisted pullup needs a 25% counterweight. I guess the worst that can happen is that I don't progress as quickly in bench and press as I would have, and I don't really care that much. I mean, I want to get stronger, but I'm not in a rush.

[abyssinia]

Oh, I agree it's appropriate to tailor programs, but then complaining that your tailored version of [whatever] doesn't work so [whatever] doesn't work gets up my nose. :)

Fair enough. I'm pretty sure if your goal is to get stronger, you're going to do that just fine.

I'm thinking about it, and pullups and barbell rows both engage your lats so there's definitely similar muscle groups. I've done plenty of barbell rows with an empty bar, so you should be okay with not having plates, but I agree the form is a bit tricky - it's something my coach corrects me on more than other lifts. I guess I'm not really clear what the difference is between a barbell row and inverted row, but I'd say if pullups are your goal, substituting them isn't a bad thing.

Honestly, I do think it looks good. Good luck and have fun!

[daedala]

Inverted rows are where you hang from a lowish (hip-height?) bar, with your legs stretched out, and row yourself up. One of the few valid uses for a Smith machine. :)

The more that I think of it, the more I bet the issue was strength/lat engagement, rather than form per se, since my lats are lazy little bastards. I'll do the program I made up for a while and THEN try the rows again.

[rydra_wong]

(you need plates on the bar because you're starting from the floor)

Or alternatively, use some kind of platform under each end of the bar (apparently those plastic aerobics steps work well) to raise the starting position of the barbell to where you want it.

I first heard this as an option for deadlifting, for people who aren't (yet) using the big plates, but I'd assume it works equally well for anything starting from the floor.

OTOH, pull-ups are awesome, and if that's your goal anyway, go for it. *g*

But I thought I'd mention the step thing in case it's of use to other people reading.

[daedala]

Oh, point. I've done that. It's just a particular pain in the butt at my gym, since the steps are not at all close to the free weights area. I might need to do it for the deadlifts, though.

My benching was helped a lot by putting my feet on plates, too. That's easier since I can use the weight plates that are there instead of trying to find something non-clangy.

[twtd]

I did the stronglift program for about 6 months starting last May and I absolutely loved it. I couldn't start with a bar for any of the exercises (well, I tried squats with a bar my first workout and then could barely walk for a week), but my weights went up fast. The presses were my nemesis though. They were the only thing I didn't really improve on.

I will say, you should maybe delay more than a week or two before you decide how many sets of squats you want to do. My legs were absolutely wrecked the first couple of weeks, but after that I never felt that the squats were leaving me unable to do anything else. They were exhausting while I was doing them, but after a shower and a couple of hours of rest, I was fine. I had to do yoga on my off days though because my hips would get super tight.

[daedala]

Thanks for the testimonial. I've been lifting for a while now, so I hope I won't have the same "wrecked" experience, but we'll see!

[lyorn]

For the barbell rows, do you have something (two low steps or two thick plates) to put the bar on, so you can start with the bar alone? Or use one of the lighter bars with plates? (I did about 66 to 77 lbs on the barbell bent-over rows, so 65 does not seem ttotally unrealistic for a woman.) I need to bend my knees more than just a little to keep my back in a good position, though.

I find that the best way to break through a plateau is, for me, to do the first set relatively light, then use a lot more weight than I did before and go to end of set or to fail. If fail, reduce load for next set, but not to starting level, otherwise, keep. Repeat for all sets.

I have compromised with myself, on days I go lifting I do not bike to work. My knees do not like having to deal with both in one day, and dragging the gym bag to work is no fun, either.

[daedala]

I can use risers of some kind, and a lighter bar. I'm mostly just concerned about form (and annoyance fetching the risers). 65 is totally realistic for me, I'm quite sure, but it's at the high end and it doesn't leave me a lot of space to increase.

I kind of want to bike every day, if possible. It's only 4 miles.

[lyorn]

It's only 4 miles

When you said "70 a week" I subconciously calculated a much further distance. Four miles is perfect for bicycling, I feel. ;-)

Yeah for form. Friday I managed to sprain a muscle in my back loading a 5 kg box into my car and not thinking about what I was doing. Don't want that to happen with a loaded barbell...

[daedala]

Oh, yeah.

The 4 miles is a good commute. But then I bike more. I go to the store, I bike around the lakes I do the greenway patrol....

Yesterday, I did 5x5 squats with the empty bar and 22 miles on the bike (not to mention 19 miles the day before...), and I'm tired but basically fine. So I am thinking this will work at least for a while.

If I follow the program, reducing the pullup counterweight by 5 lbs every time, I'll be doing full pullups by the time I'm done. Not to mention pressing nearly bodyweight. Yeah, suuuuuuure. But it will be fun to try!