How much should Sergeant Taura deadlift?

[vass]

This is based on a few lines from Lois McMaster Bujold's novella Winterfair Gifts. (No spoilers follow.)

Roic asks Taura "What mass d'you lift?" Now, obviously, he should have asked "What mass do you deadlift?" or "What mass do you squat?" or some other exercise. But let's assume he means deadlift. Taura answers that she can lift 250kg without adrenaline (I assume she means under stress, not as a supplement.)

Here are ExRx's standards (in pounds, unfortunately.) Taura is lifting as much as an elite 82kg man, for a 1 rep max.

Now, Taura is a genetically engineered super soldier. She's eight feet tall. She's at the peak of her training, and in combat on a daily basis. On the other hand, she doesn't exhibit visible hypertrophy - she's lean, not bulky. She's described as being something like a wolf-human hybrid.

What do you guys think? Is 250kg reasonable? Should it be more? If so, how much more?

My response: I think she must weigh a minimum of 125kg (this would give her a BMI of 20, and yes, the BMI is stupid, but she can't be underweight, right?) and probably more. She is lean, but still clearly strong. I think it could go both ways. If Bujold is trying to show that she's more lean than bulky, then 250 is a reasonable 1RM. (I don't think Bujold actually put this much thought into it, but I'm giving her credit anyway.) On the other hand, if she wanted to show that Taura's even stronger than she looks, then Taura should be lifting more than 250. At least 275, very possibly 300.

Comments

[damned_colonial]

For a genetically engineered (female) super-soldier, deadlifting or squatting twice bodyweight doesn't seem unreasonable, and I agree that it could be higher. 2x bodyweight sounds like roughly where the trainers at my gym are, who are non-genetically-engineered but do have the benefit of being male.

My question is, what training is Taura doing? If you're in good training for combat, is that necessarily lifting? I don't know much about it, but I would imagine that martial arts type stuff and endurance training would be more important than pure strength, and while I don't doubt that soldiers hit the weights room regularly, I don't feel like they'd be focusing on their squats, you know? (I fully admit that my knowledge of military fitness is mostly taken from Stargate fanfic, however.)

The other thing is, nobody in the dialogue you quote *says* "one rep max". Taura may be quoting her typical amount for a 12-rep set.

The other other thing -- yes, I am just randomly spewing things that come to mind -- is that on a spaceship they may have entirely different weight lifting exercises rather than free weights. I'm imagining that for instance if there are periods of zero gravity, free weights would be a really bad idea! I'm now visualising that ridiculous leg-press/pedal thing from Star Trek TOS -- I have no idea what it was meant to be but there's a clip of Kirk using it in a vid I like.

And one more thing. I like that Roic specifically says "mass" not "weight", but it does point out that weight lifting in variable gravity would be interesting... can you deadlift more mass in low grav than in earth grav? I would expect so. So, what gravity do they have on the ship? Assuming gravity takes power to generate, there'd be a tendency to go for the lowest that's a) comfortable and b) not too much lighter than places you might land and visit, so as not to disable the crew when they land. I have no idea what that might be, but I'm just pointing out that lifting 250kg of mass may not be the same as lifting 250kg of weight in this particular circumstance.

[rydra_wong]

2x bodyweight sounds like roughly where the trainers at my gym are, who are non-genetically-engineered but do have the benefit of being male.

For reference, IIRC Gubernatrix (who's a non-genetically-engineered female amateur powerlifter) said at a workshop that she can deadlift twice her bodyweight, which she considers disappointing as it's her worst lift.

[vass]

Bujold's never said anything about variable gravity on her ships, as far as I can recall. Her universe was originally based on Star Trek, so I would expect to see inertial dampeners and artificial gravity, but it's just not mentioned. (But there's a group of genetically engineered human who live in free fall, called the Quaddies, who have arms instead of legs.) Also, Roic has never been offplanet, so I'm inclined to think his saying mass instead of weight was an accident.

[rachelmanija]

Taura could easily be underweight, I would think: she has that super-fast metabolism, and by the time she meets Roic, she's already starting the downhill slide, which was implied to be something along the lines of the metabolism speeding up unsustainably, implying that you can't eat enough to keep you alive.

...I think I just depressed myself.

[rydra_wong]

I don't remember the exact details of Taura's genetic engineering, but it occurs to be that if you're engineering a female supersoldier who doesn't have to live long or be fertile (I can't remember if she is, but I would guess not), you could also design her to run at a very very low body fat percentage.

Which would also be how you'd want a disposable being with a super-fast metabolism to function -- you'd want them to burn through fat before their metabolism starts eating muscle and organ tissue, or they'll crash and be unusable even sooner.

In which case, she could be underweight and still have a lot of muscle mass.

[vass]

Yeah, I agree. Also, a lot of muscle mass would help explain the need for the metabolism, since muscle's more metabolically active than fat.

[rydra_wong]

But let's assume he means deadlift.

OTOH, if he means power clean or something similar (i.e. get the weight up, not just to mid-thigh), then she really is science-fictionally strong.

[vass]

Yeah, point.