lifting_heavy_things | So, um, I'm certain you all will know this ...

Squat is where you have the barbell on your shoulders, you go down into a sitting position and stand back up. With better form than that, but you know what I mean.

For the bent-legged deadlift, the barbell starts on the floor. You start in a squatting position and grasp the barbell, usually with your hands outside your legs. You push through your legs and stand up; when you finish you're upright and holding the barbell in front of you at crotch level. Then you squat back down so the barbell is back on the ground.

...and it just occurred to me that you probably know that. In my experience, the way the legs work with the two exercises is more or less the same. It feels different starting from the squatting position instead of starting from upright, and, of course, the upper body is leaned differently, which makes the whole thing feel different. But in both exercises, when I'm pushing up, I'm mostly pushing through the heels and trying to drive the barbell upwards using the quads, hamstrings and glutes. I find that BLDLs hit my hammies and glutes more, while squats hit my quads more, but I've also heard people say the exact opposite.

Does that help answer your question?

I'm sure there are a bunch of YouTube videos of both exercises; I'm too lazy to find links. You might also want to search stumptuous.com.

Edited 2011-09-03 17:18 (UTC)

Basically, as I understand it, a squat, you start from standing up (holding the weight or not), and a deadlift (pretty much always holding a weight), you start from squatting down, or rather, reaching down to get the weight.

Well, it gets clearer with barbells, because with a squat, the bar will be on top of you (on your shoulders, front or back) and with a deadlift, the bar is underneath you. So it's usually possible to tell which one you're doing. *g*

That's not very helpful with dumbbells, of course ...

As I understand it, with squats the primary focus of the movement is in the front of your thighs (though the entire body gets involved, in both exercises). The action is the bend in your knees and hips, so you go all the way down until your thighs and calves are as close as possible, then push all the way back up again.

With deadlifts, it's all about the "posterior chain" -- back, glutes, hamstrings. You're trying to move the weight from a "dead stop" on the floor. You bend your knees enough to grab the weight (ETA: WITHOUT ROUNDING YOUR BACK)-- you don't have to squat all the way down -- and then the action is pulling with all of the muscles down the back of your body to straighten yourself up with the weight.

There's some overlap, because they work a lot of the same muscles, particularly in the legs and back, but ideally they should be different movements.

Informative linkage:

http://gubernatrix.co.uk/2008/01/deadlift/
http://gubernatrix.co.uk/category/technique/squat/
http://www.stumptuous.com/lurn-to-squat-good-e-zy
http://www.stumptuous.com/dork-diva-squat

Just for extra confusion, there's the "sumo deadlift", where you start the deadlift in a different, more squat-like position, and it feels like almost a hybrid between a deadlift and a squat.

Um. I suggest not even trying to deal with that right now. Unless it seems like fun.

Edited 2011-09-03 20:34 (UTC)

Ohhhh, okay, I see a vast part of my personal confusion. I am not up to doing these with weight all the time. So, with no weights, what's the difference between a squat and a deadlift?

And, having posted that, I now see rydra_wong's explanation. Disregard, and thank you!

With no weights, a deadlift is basically "bending over to pick up an imaginary object from the floor". *g*

Actually, I belatedly realized that this is a good example: imagine you've dropped something lightweight on the floor. Your basic "reach down and pick it up" move is pretty much a deadlift.

Now imagine that you've strained your back: in that case, you'll (rather gingerly) squat all the way down, pick up the object, then stand up with it. That's your squat movement.

Another way of thinking about it is to focus on the centres of gravity in the movement. In a squat, any extra weight (whether it's a barbell on your shoulders or dumbbells held down by your sides) has its centre of gravity acting right down through your centre of gravity, throughout the whole movement.

With a deadlift, you start with the weight's centre of gravity in front of yours; the action of the deadlift is pulling it up and "onto" your centre of gravity. If that makes any sense at all.

Unlike squats, deadlifts tend not to be done with bodyweight alone. However, a single-legged deadlift can be a pretty fun balance and stability exercise, even with no weight or a light weight:

http://gubernatrix.co.uk/2008/10/improve-weaknesses-with-unilateral-exercises/

Yes, yes, precisely. One can DO squats with no weight, and I was trying to figure out what a deadlift without a barbell was, what the core of the motion was. As I suspected, the answers here are exceedingly helpful.

I anticipate that the amount of weight I can "deadlift" is actually going to go dramatically UP, since it doesn't appear to involve squatting butt-to-heel.

On the other hand, I am really going to have to work on the bar position on my squats. I had been holding the bar at arms length in front of me -- i.e., in a deadlift position -- because the on-the-shoulders position aggravated a rotator cuff injury from last year. That's healed up now, though, so I should be able to do it.

For squats, if you can't manage a barbell on your shoulders, you can always hold dumbbells in your hands. Don't know if you've tried that.

And I think most people can deadlift higher weights than they can squat. If your gym has lighter barbells, you might want to start with a ten-pound barbell and see how that feels. You'll just need to elevate it a little so you're not having to bend down too far to pick it up--it should be at the height it would be at if it had 45-pound plates.

And I think most people can deadlift higher weights than they can squat.

Yup, and it can vary even more depending on body proportions (which may be more or less suited to squats or deadlifts).

At the moment, my max effort squat still hasn't reached the weight that I use for my warm-up set of deadlifts!

You'll just need to elevate it a little so you're not having to bend down too far to pick it up--it should be at the height it would be at if it had 45-pound plates.

This. Starting with it elevated to plate-height helps protect your lower back.

I had been holding the bar at arms length in front of me -- i.e., in a deadlift position

Yeah, that's not going to work with a proper squat, because the bar would have to be able to travel through your knees. *g*

OTOH, if your shoulders get cranky using a barbell, then you can use two dumbbells, hanging down by your sides.

Or, even better, first learn the "goblet squat", which is one of the best tools ever for learning proper squat form: get a dumbbell, hold it vertically in front of your chest (like you're holding a goblet, hence the name -- don't be confused by all the people who think it's a "goblin squat"):

http://www.ehow.co.uk/video_2351724_doing-squat-lower-body-exercise.html

For me, the goblet squat really helped me figure out how squats work.

Sorry if I'm spamming the thread, btw -- this is a subject dear to my heart.

Nope, see, I ask these questions HERE because there is such a knowledge base! Excellent.

Testifying to the power of Goblet Squats! I found them really helpful before getting some proper weight on my shoulders for back squats.

So, um, I'm certain you all will know this ...

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